Episode 6: Interview with Ann Jordan, CEO of ASQ

Host Jim Fries speaks to Ann Jordan, CEO of ASQ in the sixth episode of The Patient Safety Podcast about recent changes in quality management since the COVID-19 pandemic. Ann discusses how these quality changes impact supply chain and data integrity in the pharmaceutical industry, and how quality professionals adapt and react to challenges in the workforce, technology, and risk management.

Thank you to Rx-360: https://rx-360.org/ 

Thank you to our special guest Ann Jordan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-jordan-b40b772b


Read the Interview:

Jim (00:00:32:06 – 00:00:53:05):

Hi. This is Jim Fries, CEO of Rx- 360. I wanted to welcome everybody to our very first podcast of 2023. For those of you that joined us last year, we had a series of episodes that I think were tremendously impactful for not only the industry, but great for the sharing of ideas, bringing people together and getting really good information out to the pharmaceutical community.

Jim (00:00:53:05 – 00:01:25:12):

On our mission statement, which is wrapped around material quality, patient safety and supply chain integrity so with that, again, we want to welcome everybody to our first episode of 2023. And I could not be more honored or humbled to have our first guest of the year. So I want to introduce Ann Jordan, the Chief Executive Officer of ASQ, I know and has been with ASQ, I believe, if I’m not mistaken since 2017, you started out in the general counsel there but and want to take a minute and introduce yourselves to all of our all of our listeners.

Ann (00:01:26:15 – 00:01:51:22):

Thank you so much Jim. And just like you I’m thrilled that we’re able to connect and be able to reach out to our membership as well as the general public on some of these really critical and timely issues. You’re absolutely correct. I joined ASQ in 2017 as a general counsel. By way of background, I was very much focused on risk management throughout my career and that really drove that initial nexus with quality.

Ann (00:01:52:04 – 00:02:13:01):

So I found a home here after a couple of years. I was very fortunate to become interim CEO. And then this thing called the pandemic hit in 20, 20, and at the end of it I was thrilled to be promoted to the full time CEO during all this time of disruption and to have gone through that journey with quality professionals, with industry.

Ann (00:02:13:05 – 00:02:40:06):

As we were going through all this changed, I like to say I have the greatest job in the world, Jim. I get to support people around the world who are dedicating their professional life to improvement, whether that be in the pharmaceutical industry or in other areas. So I am the biggest cheerleader in the world for quality practices, love to advocate and love to join organizations like you to have these wonderful conversations.

Jim (00:02:40:09 – 00:02:58:22):

Awesome. We’re aligned in one area because I also think I have the greatest job in the world. So we’re we’re on even ground there. Ann, quick question for you as kind of we start this conversation. One thing that’s always been on my mind and I ask a lot of people this, but I have kind of the the quality point person in the world in front of me right now.

Jim (00:02:58:22 – 00:03:19:12):

But how have you seen how we as an industry or as a society, how do we view quality? How is it evolved? How has it changed? Because I know in even the five years I’ve been at Rx- 360, I have seen the mentality around quality really kind of change a lot and to be honest with you, for the better.

Ann (00:03:20:09 – 00:03:42:11):

Yeah. So Jim, this is a two hour podcast, right? So we dig into those those changes. So I’m going to go kind of macro and then micro and dig a little bit more into your industry. But let’s start with the pandemic. The pandemic turned the world inside out and really with respect to quality, brought it to a forefront.

Ann (00:03:43:06 – 00:04:02:23):

Now, one of the things that has changed is what you traditionally think of as quality might have different vernacular. And so the general public one, the challenges that that we have is that they hear the word quality that might not have the meaning. Well, when it’s applied within industry, it actually becomes something that’s very scientific, that’s very process oriented.

Ann (00:04:03:07 – 00:04:34:02):

So over the course of seeing how things have changed, you see that evolution of how it’s applied. But then when the pandemic hits, the prominence of applying it to get you through disruption will have a tremendous change in impact. Now, I talked about kind of the macro level and what changes we’ve seen. We’re very fortunate it is. Q We work with our sister organization, ASQE which is a C6 that collects year over year data to capture these emerging trends in quality throughout industry.

Ann (00:04:34:17 – 00:05:11:16):

With respect to 2022 alone, no surprise, the biggest changes that you’re seeing with an impact on quality are two things. One, supply chain, obviously all the disruption coming out of the pandemic and second, data integrity, both of those have a huge impact in pharmaceutical industry. And of course, I’m guessing we’re going to dig into that later. But some of those changes that we’ve seen is when we come to times of disruption, right, whether it be a pandemic, whether it be digital transformation, whether it be all of these things, the way by which quality practices are applied has to come up to speed with that environment.

Ann (00:05:12:04 – 00:05:45:13):

So the big one, how does it interface with technology? Another one, how does quality interface when you have workforce challenges, right? How do you apply change management throughout this and risk management? So even though we’ve seen these tremendous what I’ll call paradigm shifts throughout industry and time, the underlying practices are the same. But how you apply that in the environment is the biggest challenge quality professionals then have to stay up to speed their resources that they need, the technology that they bring into play and how they react.

Ann (00:05:45:13 – 00:05:52:18):

That response time that becomes absolutely critical. And I’ve never seen anything like it with the pace after the pandemic.

Jim (00:05:52:18 – 00:06:09:14):

Yeah, and I agree with you, Ann, it’s funny too, because sometimes I’ll put myself in a position of saying, OK, when we look at quality, when I’ll even talk about Rx-360 here for a minute, some of the things that we did during the pandemic in regards to data integrity, we have a specific working group around that.

Jim (00:06:10:03 – 00:06:34:16):

In regards to supply chain integrity, I did, I saw it like ramp up and I I’ve talked on the podium before and the term I used is hyper focus. I saw an industry get hyper focused around this. And but what worries me a little bit is now that we’re, for lack of a better term, starting to come out of this hyper focus a little bit, let’s not relax.

Jim (00:06:34:16 – 00:06:52:11):

And that’s what worries me a little bit is when we talk about the evolution of quality in pharma, we’ve all gone like this. We continue to go straight up. But my worry is just because we’re coming out on the back side of it, what’s not take a breath and let our guard down. That’s one of the things that worries me sometimes.

Jim (00:06:52:15 – 00:07:16:05):

And it’s incredible. You you I’m sure you see the same thing with ASQ memberships. It’s incredibly energizing for me when I see Rx-360 members still like uber-engaged around this, these ideas of data integrity and supply chain integrity and really kind of sharing best practices, sharing ideas and taking it to the next step. I’m sure you see the same thing with your group also.

Ann (00:07:17:05 – 00:07:46:01):

Absolutely. And I would say in your industry in particular, because of the pandemic and the focus on vaccines and this public view that maybe it never existed before, just think about the vaccine dispute to begin with on do people trust it you know, was the process accelerated because of uber quality or a lack of quality? And so I think the focus on your industry, Jim, I don’t think that’s going to change.

Ann (00:07:46:01 – 00:08:09:21):

You’re in the spotlight and you might stay there. And so that element of hyperbole, yes, I agree with you. And some of the things with respect to quality professionals, when you add on digital transformation, look at risk management. So risk management now needs to be almost proactive when you apply artificial intelligence and digital transformation. In the past, maybe it was more stagnant.

Ann (00:08:10:04 – 00:08:41:11):

It needs to become this almost constant. Three dimensional identification. Well, risk management. Now, let’s flip to the concept of resilience. And we currently see debates going on. When you apply A.I. and some of those technologies is real resiliency even enough? Does it need to be so proactive that we’re going to this term anti-fragility so that when you apply technology it’s actually looking at how to not only take care of the risk, but advance you to a place where you don’t exist.

Ann (00:08:41:18 – 00:09:06:18):

So scholarship is pushing in that direction of don’t let up, but it’s the technology that’s allow me to do it. Now, where you might start to see divide is who’s going to invest in technology and in pharma, because you have the the small more creative shops and then the large shops, who’s going to have the resources to to invest and keep up so I agree with you. 100%. We’re seeing that across industry.

Jim (00:09:06:18 – 00:09:35:16):

Yeah. And what’s really I guess if you want to say again, to use the word energizing in the pharma industry, is you’re right, over the last five years, we’ve seen this huge increase in in technologies being used within within quality initiatives in pharma. So whether it’s GMP auditing, whether it’s whatever it might be or we’re taking a look at these platforms that track data, you know, how we look at data out of a clinical trial, all those type of things.

Jim (00:09:36:00 – 00:10:05:19):

And what I’m seeing is this ramp up evolution, energizing area of people actually going out and auditing software companies and platforms that they would have never even thought about doing that previously. So what that says to me is this world of technology and how it interfaces with pharma is why do we now why are we being accepted? And the thought process has evolved as to how can we use it more?

Jim (00:10:06:03 – 00:10:21:05):

You know, when whenever I see somebody, you know, calling Rx-360 and saying, hey, can you guys audit this software? Provider for us? I immediately, I’m like, to me, that gives me the, you know, the mindset of where the industry is going.

Ann (00:10:21:05 – 00:10:38:07):

Absolutely. And then continuing on with that, once you identify and you can audit to that technology, how do you upskill your quality resource says internally your workforce to be able to apply it and then even greater than that, integrate it with your existing systems.

Ann (00:10:39:05 – 00:11:05:17):

You know, some of the great data again I rely on these year over year reports that we get with ASQ in IOE is that interface issue you can invest in the technology, but is it actually getting you where you want to be because of that necessary upskilling, because of that interface and integration component? And so I think it is you look at the kind of maturity matrix in this area.

Ann (00:11:05:17 – 00:11:29:02):

I think everyone’s pro digital transformation, right? But how do you actually integrate to be able to execute and take advantage of it? And when you talk about data and data integrity, you know, there’s so much we can do with data, but data is only powerful when it’s leveraged and used and so the technology can give it to us.

Ann (00:11:29:10 – 00:11:49:08):

What are we going to do and how are we going to play it? And I think that’s where we are right now. And you kind of are seeing some organizations struggle with it. Some of them can’t get the resources to to do it. And if they do, do they have the right people and talent? So it’s an interesting time, very interesting, dynamic time on this.

Jim (00:11:49:12 – 00:12:19:14):

And to one of your points, the old analogy and probably it’s been proven in the short term, it’s not true, but the old analogy of, you know, technology will increase your bandwidth well, to be honest with you, in those early stages of integrating some of this technology into to farmer or whatever industry you’re in, whether it’s food science or whatever, that initial launch into that arena, your internal resources actually need to be optimum in order to leverage all of that information over time

Jim (00:12:19:14 – 00:12:49:00):

it may diminish you know, that need. But man, right up front, it’s something that really has to be you have to have the resources to be able to leverage all of that data. We saw the same thing kind of to make an analogy when it comes to quality in pharma during the pandemic, I saw our members at Rx-360 do a yeoman’s job in pivoting in the world of auditing of their suppliers because all of a sudden they couldn’t get on site to do audits.

Jim (00:12:49:08 – 00:13:14:11):

And it was one of those moments of, oh, what do we do? And I saw a significant number of Rx-360 members utilize us as a conduit to literally and I’m not exaggerating when I say this in two weeks develop a remote audit model that they all shared in and they all went out and they were able to do continue their auditing of their facilities in a remote way.

Jim (00:13:14:21 – 00:13:44:02):

But what was interesting was, along with this technology question that we just talked about, we saw in that example and that immediately everybody thought a remote audit would take a rest time because it’s remote but what we learned was in the early days of it, it actually took more time because people weren’t used to that model. So there’s a learning curve where there’s everything, whether it’s technology, whether it’s utilizing a new model when it comes to something.

Jim (00:13:44:02 – 00:13:46:19):

But I agree with you.

Ann (00:13:46:19 – 00:14:12:03):

And on that topic of remote auditing, ASQ is very fortunate. We have a whole auditing technical community. And so when this sudden flip the switch occurred where it not only in your pharma industry, but other areas, I mean, I talked to one member who’s high up in government overseeing the fish industry and the fish that’s coming into the United States I mean, we’re doing we’re doing that remote audit now during a pandemic.

Ann (00:14:12:19 – 00:14:40:10):

But our audit technical community, they have an annual conference. I got to go down in Florida and join them for a few months ago. And this whole remote auditing was the topic, what the change was, whether or not the results were showing that same level of credibility. But then what’s next, Jim? Is remote auditing going to stay? Is it going to be something that’s going to have, you know, greater regulatory elements that come in?

Ann (00:14:40:10 – 00:15:03:22):

Is it going to be accepted? And then what gaps potentially are there? And how can remote audit advanced is it going to be a technology situation? Do we need to train the auditors in different ways? So we have a whole group know thousands of auditors that are just tackling this issue right now. And I love I love to hear where their lines are going.

Jim (00:15:03:22 – 00:15:31:14):

And I can tell you from my perspective and and talking to our members here at Rx-360 remote auditing is not going away. But what we’re it’s being kind of integrated now is this idea of risk stratified creation where a lot of the pharma organizations are looking at their suppliers in different tiers. And they may, you know, look at a Tier three and Tier four supplier and say we can do remote audits there.

Jim (00:15:31:22 – 00:15:59:00):

But a tier one and two tier two supplier we want to go on site. So I I’ve said to everybody and I truly believe this remote auditing is not going away. And the next the next kind of phase of that is how do we get better at it? I think one of the biggest challenges is, you know, and I can give you tons of cases, examples of talks I’ve given over the last year where I’ll give a talk on remote auditing or it’ll be part of my talk.

Jim (00:15:59:08 – 00:16:24:02):

And inevitably, every single time somebody raises their hand and says, hey, what type of technology should I be using, you know, to be able to visualize, you know, what I would normally see when I’m on site? And that’s the biggest challenge is, is getting the auditing and the auditor to agree upon what platform is best. So I think that’s where we see some of the evolution coming.

Jim (00:16:24:20 – 00:16:46:12):

But but again, that’s how I see it. It’s not going away. And for me, when I hear these things about stratification and terrain and how we decide, you know, I’m a risk junkie, so then I just keep going back to your overall risk management system and I see your industry that is just really going to become way more significant as we adapt to all of these changes.

Jim (00:16:47:22 – 00:17:09:17):

So when you look at quality from a perspective of a skew and a lot of the people that you talk to, you know, I’m sure to ask you, just like at our actuary, we’re moving a million miles an hour all the time. Right. And sometimes you just have to take that step back, take a breath and say, OK, I need to be prepared for what’s next, because sometimes we get caught up in the here and now.

Jim (00:17:09:17 – 00:17:27:21):

So when you look at the world of quality, what do you think? You know, what’s next? What do we need to be prepared for or to even, you know, kind of give a part B to that question, Ann, is what do you think were our biggest learnings about quality during the pandemic?

Ann (00:17:27:21 – 00:17:56:18):

Oh man, I’ll start with the last part. You said, what were our biggest learnings? If you don’t have a quality management system and a lot of these practices in place and something like a pandemic hits, you’re leaps and bounds behind everyone else because you don’t have a mechanism by which you can receive data, by which you can process and put in a procedure to go through these challenges and adapt the change and understand where you’re going.

Ann (00:17:57:15 – 00:18:29:11):

And so my my hope, my hope, the big takeaway from the pandemic is this concept of oversight of vigilance, of control, of integration. It becomes more prominent and recognized and has that conversation at the C-suite. I do think quality at the current time. And again, this is something that we track with our data year over year. Does the C-suite understand and recognize quality as much as the managers, directors and people that are that are actually applying it?

Ann (00:18:29:16 – 00:18:56:02):

Are they getting the resources to to understand these integration topics that we’re talking about? You know, I guarantee you, most CEOs sit in a room and say, we’re going to invest in technology, but then do they actually understand what that means to have it apply integrated and be proactive to understand where where things can go? So I see one of the biggest challenges of quality right now is to get the mindset.

Ann (00:18:56:07 – 00:19:21:20):

Quality isn’t red tape and backwards thinking quality application and organizational excellence, which I like to refer to more, is the ability to accelerate and go forward and protect yourself and insulate it. And what is that element of change management? People don’t often align quality with change management, but they are one in the same. That is a practice by which needs to be implemented.

Ann (00:19:21:20 – 00:19:41:12):

So any time you go through disruption like this, that comes to the forefront. How stable, how integrated is your quality management system? How prepared are you for change because of that? And then at the end of the day, is your workforce ready? Right. You can talk about all this. We can talk about digital transformation, we can talk about quality, we can talk about risk.

Ann (00:19:41:18 – 00:19:45:22):

If you don’t have the right skilled people to execute it, you’re not going anywhere.

Jim (00:19:45:22 – 00:20:08:20):

Where do you when you look at quality across not only pharmaceuticals but across every industry, because obviously you’re working with every industry, is there are we at an inflection point where there’s not enough quality managers and people that are in the workplace? Do we need to be, you know, mining industries to say, hey, we need more people here?

Jim (00:20:09:01 – 00:20:15:18):

We always talk about, hey, we always need more nurses and we always need more teachers. Is quality the same way?

Ann (00:20:15:18 – 00:20:43:19):

So sometimes I call my response to this a philosophical debate because we have our phenomenal society of people that identify themselves as quality professionals. But there is a significant population in the professional world that doesn’t necessarily identify themselves as a quality professional, but needs quality tools to do their job well.

Ann (00:20:45:00 – 00:21:10:00):

And so when we talk about are there enough quality professionals, my answer is always going to be No, there’s not enough quality professionals because you need more of it. But organizations might not identify it in the same way they may believe, hey, we have someone that’s in this department, they’re not in the quality department, but we inherently expect them to be able to execute quality practices.

Ann (00:21:10:22 – 00:21:46:16):

And so I believe quality overall as a discipline, yes. Needs to advance more to tackle some of these huge changes. We’ve talked about digital transformation a lot. I mean, we’ve talked about supply chain. One of the next great challenges where quality really needs to be integrated to see advancement is ESG and that word is booming everywhere you have probably I think now it’s up to 95% of for sure the Fortune five hundreds of those publicly traded that are implementing ESG programs.

Ann (00:21:47:18 – 00:22:08:21):

One of the things that that we’re trying to highlight as an organization is even though ESG started in the financial and Wall Street area, this now is going to an organizational excellence I here ESG, I think organizational excellence because of all these different areas you need to execute in for the E, for the S and the G, and that includes pharmaceutical companies.

Ann (00:22:08:21 – 00:22:37:18):

They also are addressing that the way you implement audit measure and convey to the public you’re actually complying with these ESG that you’ve put out there publicly is through quality practices, but people aren’t necessarily using that term. And so we got we’ve got to bridge that gap. And quite frankly, we want to upskill we want to open up the doors to everyone at ASQ and say, hey, you have these problems, we have the problem solvers, come join us.

Ann (00:22:37:18 – 00:22:41:15):

We’re going to upskill you and we’re going to get your organization where it needs to be.

Jim (00:22:41:15 – 00:22:57:02):

Yeah I agree with you. I think that there is you know, we used the term at the beginning of the podcast here about, you know, evolution. And I think that’s one of the evolutions we’re seeing now. Is that the deal we’re being pushed towards that level of awareness around quality.

Jim (00:22:57:08 – 00:23:26:08):

You know, it’s I think it’s not in the background. We’re being pushed there because of a lot of other external factors, such as ESG and those type of things. We’re thinking more about risk. Quality is kind of that overriding thing when we when we talk about those. If I heard you correctly and I’m a big advocate of this, but I wanted to hear it from your your viewpoint, too, is advocating for more internal quality training at organizations wherever you are.

Jim (00:23:26:08 – 00:23:48:18):

I think sometimes I have seen where quality training within organizations might be dedicated to X department and why department, but we should really be providing that training to department A B C D and E. So everybody kind of is, at least at some level, having that awareness around it.

Ann (00:23:48:18 – 00:24:04:19):

Absolutely. And so that kind of goes to that debate for me is ask you a society just for quality professionals or do we want to start waving the flag what we’re trying to do is saying, hey, we’re here for everyone because we all need to improve in our jobs.

Ann (00:24:05:06 – 00:24:27:15):

We all want to have better organizations. And in this dynamic, hyper dynamic world of change, you know, we need to have this as part of our arsenal at all times, no matter what department we’re in. And so I am 100% aligned with you that this is something that needs to be embraced. But I also think people don’t necessarily know right away.

Ann (00:24:27:15 – 00:24:55:04):

And this includes at the upper tiers of organizations that what they’re looking for, for problem solving, for improvement is quality. They might align it with different business practice, vernacular. And so that’s where we as an organization really again want to extend this welcoming to say, hey, you a problem, we’re going to help you find a solution. We’re going to have to help you adapt too to all these changes coming your way and create community.

Ann (00:24:55:09 – 00:25:22:18):

And that’s one of the wonderful things I think that your organization and our organization share. We are a community for all of these individuals to come together to address these problems. And see how we can improve. I think the pandemic really also highlighted the necessity for our communities. You know, where do people go when everything’s going crazy around you? You come to your professional organizations and you find those solutions.

Jim (00:25:22:18 – 00:25:41:15):

Yeah, I found it interesting. You know, I know you guys do this all the time from an educational perspective. It hit me probably I guess about a year ago. Rx- 360 has has this wonderful joint audit program where we bring organizations together to to conduct confidential audits of pharmaceutical suppliers.

Jim (00:25:41:15 – 00:26:16:14):

And it’s really a plus for the industry. And we do a ton of education around that model, around the joint audit model. And it occurred to me that when we’re doing that education we’re actually providing an up quality educational awareness because we’re showing people how to conduct audits in a different model. That maybe they’re not used to that actually enhances their, their quality management systems and enhances their, their initiatives, enhances their supply chain security and integrity.

Jim (00:26:16:20 – 00:26:37:20):

So I started to look at it a little bit differently than just, hey, we’re not just talking about the Rx-360 joint audit program or the Rx-360 audit license program. We’re actually talking about this mentality that that helps the industry as a whole. And that’s kind of where my mindset started to shift a little bit.

Ann (00:26:37:20 – 00:26:51:10):

Yeah, absolutely. And, and for, for ASQ because we cover all areas of industry that enlightenment and how it’s applied, it’s slightly different and the different groups depending upon what you’re going through.

Ann (00:26:52:06 – 00:27:34:20):

But one of the things that ASQ tried to, to, to capture with respect to your industry was quality in their action with the development of vaccines and how organizations responded, whether they ramped up and integrated it. More to the point that you’re saying, or if it became more more siloed and concentrated while pharma, we saw that more integrated approach and the white series, white paper series that we put out here at ASQ actually tried to highlight how quality accelerated in those organizations that were trying to make these much needed advancements and that’s a positive.

Ann (00:27:34:20 – 00:27:46:12):

And earlier you said, Hey, are we going to stay this vigilant about quality and keep accelerating? I think we are. I think that’s just going to become the norm to this. This is one of the takeaways.

Jim (00:27:46:12 – 00:27:57:19):

And that’s awesome to hear. So Ann, my mindset as I’m sitting here is we can probably talk for the next three and a half hours.

Jim (00:27:57:20 – 00:28:16:09):

Yeah, but what I wanted to do was, you know, Rx-360 we’ve talked we’re based in Philadelphia. There’s a lot going on with ASQ, why don’t you share with us a little bit of some of the upcoming exciting things that are happening at ASQ and not to forward think it but you know, I know you have a big event coming up here in Philadelphia.

Ann (00:28:17:04 – 00:28:49:09):

We do. I am thrilled that our world conference, ASQ’s world conference this year is in Philadelphia. It’s coming up in May. It’s May 7th through 10th. So mark your calendars. We would love everyone there. And Jim, maybe I’ll just come knock on your door early so you and I can continue this conversation without everyone else. But it is going to be a fantastic event, you know, coming out of the pandemic last year, it was right on the edge of do we feel safe going in person this year?

Ann (00:28:49:14 – 00:29:16:14):

The world’s in a much different place. And so we are really thrilled to have a large in-person event in Philadelphia. Now because the world has gone through so much and so much disruption, the conference itself has different tracks that are going to capture some of those themes. No surprise, supply and supply chain management is going to be one of those great chat tracks that we’re going to have lively a discussion on another one Risk, Risk and Resilience.

Ann (00:29:16:14 – 00:29:46:20):

We had that conversation, is going to be another track. How the change in quality applies with leadership we’re getting more into that change management element and change leadership coming out of the pandemic. And finally, for all those emerging professionals looking at just kind of the opportunities for them to grow. So we have a little bit for everyone coming out of the pandemic and we’re adding kind of a surprise a day that that’s going to be publicized more in the future.

Ann (00:29:46:20 – 00:30:09:13):

But I’ll leak it out to those that are willing to listen to us today. There’s going to be an ESG track and we’re going to bring in thought leaders, really leading thought leaders in this area to identify that that kind of convergence of ESG and quality and how it impacts the workforce and the need for upskilling and the next few years.

Ann (00:30:10:01 – 00:30:31:14):

And then we’re going to break that down with kind of subject matter experts and different areas related to ESG, whether it be people within organizations, consultants on ESG, people that are academics and scientists to start tackling some of this and then have a breakout with respect to communities so that people can engage directly. So we have a lot of exciting things planned in Philadelphia.

Ann (00:30:32:06 – 00:30:39:06):

I think so much is going to be relevant to your members. We’d love to see them there. And I’m looking forward to seeing you there, Jim.

Jim (00:30:39:06 – 00:31:11:20):

Rx-360, we’ll have a presence there. So we’re looking forward to it. And and I’m super excited about the time we spent here today. I look forward to future conversations and and you know, again, if anybody has any questions about ASQ, I can tell you personally that their website’s wonderful, hop on their website. If anybody has any questions about Rx- 360 were available at www.rx-360.org and we look forward to interfacing with people on our next episode of the patient safety podcast and thanks again and have a wonderful time leading up to the event in Philadelphia

Ann (00:31:11:20 – 00:31:14:10):

Thank you so much Jim it’s been great to join you.